HomeMy WebLinkAboutBOS MINUTES 3-7-1979BOARD OF SELECTMEN /LIGHT
A G E N D A
March 7, 1979
7:30 p.m. - Call to Order
Board of Health - Life of the Landfill
Ron Dubuc - Water Rates & Regulations
(Hearing next Wednesday Night)
8:00 P.M. - PUBLIC HEARINGS
Amendment to the Charter
1. - 5 -year term for the Police Chief
2. - Amend Section 5 -9 Airport Commission
Warrant & Minutes of 2/28/79
i\ Correspondence
Clerk's Folder
Finance Committee
Town Manager's Report
Board Reports
(Selectman Colella's report on the Oak St. Culvert)
Pending Items
Traffic Lights at Frankline & 106
Emergency Policy
Airport Boiler
Job Classifications
Back Bay Brook Phase 3
Water Rates
Foxboro Traffic Mall Pattern
Sanitary Landfill
REMINDER - Warrant for the Special Town Meeting has to be posted by March 15th.
Meeting Saturday, 3/10/79 in Boston, leaving the Town Hall parking lot
at 8:00 a.m. - Leon Lombardi also attending this.
Public Hearing Monday night at the School Committee Meeting on Budget
BOARD OF SELECTMEN /LIGHT
Minutes of the Meeting
March 7, 1979
Present: Selectman Lyman C. Avery, Frank Colella, Robert M. DeLong, David
R. Clemmey and Antonino Caponigro, Jr. Town Manager William P.
Metropulos.
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m.
The first order of business on the agend tonight was a meeting with the
Board of Health and consultant Engineer, James Dunn regarding the status of
the landfill and how much life is left there.
The Town Manager opened the meeting and noted that he, Thom Bonome and Jim
Dunn attended a meeting with the DEQE to discuss improvements and conditions
at the landfill. The Town Manager noted that the DEQE were pleased with the
progress made since their inspection of last spring. What they want to know
is what steps are being taken regarding the water problem and debris problem.
Mr. Dunn notes that the life of the landfill could be three years depending
on the volumn going in there, it is hard to tell during the winter months
because this is when dumping decreases but the three years allows for growth
and a 50o fluctuation between the winter and summer months. There is always
an increase in the spring months. Mr. Dunn noted that in talking with the
DEQE they noted that there is an approved plan that dates dates back to 1974
and what he would like to do is meet the requirements of this plan and also
implement the possibility of extending the landfill eastward. The next con-
cern is with pollution because of the Dustin Well situated so close. Jim
noted that he has been working with Thom Bonome to try and solve the problem
of the wind blowing the litter around and to make the improvements in order to
meet the requirments of this approved plan, he has received a lot of cooperation
and essentially this is it�as far as the life of the landfill.
Selectman Clemmey questioned Jim on how much time we would save if we were to
eliminate commercial dumping? Jim noted that Thom feels it would be 500.
Selectman Avery noted that Jim estimates we have three years based on the way
it is being used now, and Jim noted, yes, as long as there is no large growth.
Selectman Avery noted that unless we do something about commercial dumping we
are going to have growth. Jim noted that they are not sure that all the com-
mercial dumping goes into our landfill but if it does., it will increase.
Selectman DeLong asked where the Board of Health was as far as new regulations.
Karl Clemmey noted that it depends on the cover material we can get, there is
cover material available, 25,000 yards of it at Toyota in the CC &F park, Karl
noted that he would like to have a questionnaire sent out with the electric bills
to find out who is using the landfill.
Jim noted that in moving the landfill to the east we could expand it for about
five years. Selectman DeLong asked if Jim had any idea how much it would cost
to prepare that site. Jim noted that it depends on the gravel we would need.
Jim estimates that we would need about 25,000 yards of it but we would not need
all of that to start out. The problems seems to be to find a material of clay
or of a silky nature. Selectman DeLong asked Jim if this material could be found
under a swampy area and Jim noted that these are wet areas and are more subjected
to pollution and this may involve getting into earth removal.
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BOARD OF SELECTMEN /LIGHT COMMISSIONERS
Minutes of the Meeting
March 7, 1979
Page 2
i
Selectman Avery asked Jim if gravel would be enough and Jim noted that it would
not because we have to prevent water from going into the ground. Selectman
DeLong asked Jim if it has been determined how much pollution is going in there
and Jim noted that out of the seven test wells one of them is directly in the
landfill and that one does have a considerable amount of pollution. Jim noted
that this pollution could be concentrated in just this area or it could travel
for miles. Selectman DeLong asked if we just give up? Jim noted that there
is no other site available in town and it's not a question of being a give up
situation but some of the pollution detected could be dangerous and if this is
the problem then it would have to be closed off.
Selectman Caponigro noted that in going through the budget he noted that $25,000.
has been budgeted for cover material and he thought that commercial dumping had
been banned. Karl Clemmey explained to Selectman Caponigro how commercial dump-
ing has been handled, that the commercial dumpers have to have their loads tested
and then come to the Town Manager's office and be issued a permit for a 6 month
period. Karl feels that Mansfield owes the industry in town this service and this
is why he feels we should find out who is using the facility. Karl noted that
a fee schedule could be established in Mansfield for dumping.
Selectman Delong does not feel that money is the problem, it is the life of the
landfill,, that is more important and action should be taken right now, this
should have been done a long time ago. The problem would be to find another
\ spot, it is imperative that we do something now to see if we can extend the life
of it, three years is not far off.
Karl noted that he finds it hard to believe that 50% of the industry use the
landfill and feels that this will affect the small businesses in town (the little
guy).
Selectman Caponigro noted that he would suggest starting tomorrow to solve the
problem because finding another site would be difficult and $25,000. for cover
material is a lot of money.
Selectman Avery noted the important thing is that we just do not have the time.
The money is not the question, eventually the residents won't be able to go in
there at all and feels that commercial dumping should be eliminated. Selectman
DeLong and Avery feel that something should be done about it now because some time
in the future it will have to be faced and anything we can do to stretch that time
should be done.
x
Ron Dubuc - Superintendent of Water of Sewer departments met with the Board
to dicuss any new insertions or deletions in the water regulations. Selectman
DeLong noted that in going through it he would like inserted on page 11 the
last paragraph, Section 16, that the use of fire hydrants have written permission.
Ron noted that the hearing for the changing of water rates is going to be held
next week and he will have the new revised copy of the regulations typed by then.
i However, the Selectmen asked that he have a copy for them in time for them to
review it before the hearing. Ron also prepared a memorandum to the Selectmen
in answer to the letter from Bill Hebard on the chemical budget requests for the
Wastewater. Treatment Plant.
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BOARD OF SELECTMEN /LIGHT COMMISSIONERS
Minutes of the Meeting
March 7, 1979
Page 3
I
The meeting continued with two Public Hearings scheduled for 8:00 p.m.
on amendments to the Charter : Town Counsel Charles Mulcahy present for hearings.
1. To amend Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - and have the Town Manager
appoint a Chief of Police for "a five (5) year term and not
have the Chief of Police come under the Civil Service Laws.
2. To amend Section 5 -9 Airport Commission so that the Aiport
Commissioners come under the direction of the Board of Select-
men.
(Selectmen voted on the two articles at the end of the hearings)
The hearing was declared opened at 8:00 p.m. by Chairman Delong, Clerk
Clemmey read the notice that was posted in the paper and the hearing was
declared opened. (Transcript prepared separately)
The hearing was closed at 9:45 p.m, and the Board recessed for five minutes.
The Board returned to open session at 9:55 p.m. to meet with the Finance Com-
mittee.
The first budget item to be discussed was the Council -On -Aging with Delores
Benson, attending along with elderly people who utilize the drop -in center.
At Monday's meeting of the Finance Committee the budget of the Council was
cut and dropped from the budget was the $3,000. rental for the building that
houses the drop -in center. Ed Benson, Co- Chairman of the FinCom noted that
due to the proposed caps of the Governor the municipal budget will not be able
to be increased, that they want to :trim it and did not purposely attack the
Council -On -Aging budget.
Selectman Caponigro asked Ed if there were any other reasons other than cutting
expenses, and-Ed noted no.
Selectman Delong asked Ed if they are running through this budget with the
assumption that there will be a cap and if they have arrived at a total figure.
Also if they are trying to make up the $900,000. deficit. Ed noted that it is
a lot of money to make up. Selectman Delong asked if the FinCom is planning on
recommending the increase for the School and that if they are going under the
assumption of a cap, even though they have school autonomy there is no reason
why it cannot be cut at the town meeting, but they can take us to court. Ed
noted - that -they can cut the school buses, that is one place they cannot take us
to court on. Bob Powers, FinCom member noted that they have not discussed the
$470,000. in the school budget but the action that they have taken with the
municipal budget would not be consistent in supporting the increase in the school
budget that they want.
The FinCom members were asked if they would support a bond issue because of the
maintenance need at the school. Bob Powers noted that if deemed a critical need
then he would support a bond issue and if the cap legislature passes in anything
similar to the form introduced then it will force a decision by a large turnout
at the town meeting and this is what concerns the FinCom (getting a large turnout)
and not just the 150 -200 who determine the town's budget.
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BOARD OF SELECTMEN /LIGHT COMMISSIONERS
Minutes of the Meeting
March 7, 1979
Page 4
l
Selectman Avery asked if the FinCom is in a position to support a bonding issue
for the school department, that the municipal budget is not able to be cut, it
has been cut to the point of a couple of years ago.
Delores Benson pointed out to the audience that the COA budget was made up very
carefully and was not inflated like other committees and departments. In the
salary account a girl has been there for 2 years without an increase and now
Delores notes they (the FinCom), want to take the drop in center away. Where would
they go, two phones are ringing all day long, files with private information are
kept, programs are run during the day at the center and this facility, meaning the
Town Hall could not accomodate them. (There was discussion that the drop in center
could use a room out in back of the Town Hall). Delores continued that they have
a minimum of 40 people a day at the center not counting the people who do not sign
in . Delores notes that this was uncalled for and she is very upset with what the
FinCOm has done , she notes that they turn the heat and lightsdown to conserve
energy and noted that the Council -On -Aging is very careful with their budget and
also noted that neither of the girls have any benefits from the town.
Delores noted that there are senior people who cannot got up to the Town Meeting
and stay the whole night in order to fight for this. Selectman Colella agreed
with Delores 100% and noted that if he was going to do any cuts this is the last
place that it would be.
Selectman Delong polled the Board as far as'..their support of not cutting the Council -
on -Aging budget. All the Board were in favor of keeping the Council- on -AGing budget
where it was, prior to being cut.
* * * *
The weekly warrant in the amount of $237,635.51 was read. This was approved on a
* motion by Selectman Clemmey, seconded by Selectman Avery. Voted 4 -0 (Selectman
Colella out of room)
A Revenue Sharing warrant in the amount of $975.00 for Landfill Plans was read.
This was approved on a motion by Selectman Clemmey, seconded by SElectman Caponigro.
* Voted 4 -0 (Selectman Colella out of room)
The Minutes of February 28, 1978 were noted. A correction on page 1, 5th para-
graph down, to change that James Grady was elected on the first ballot not the
eight. The minutes were approved on a motion by Selectman Clemmey, seconded by
* Selectman Caponigo with correction. Voted 5 -0.
The Executive Minutes of February 28, 1979 were approved with a correction to
note that Selectman Colella arrived at the meeting during the Executive Session
at 8:00 p.m. Approved by Selectman Clemmey, seconded by Selectman Caponigro.
* Voted 5 -0.
Selectman Clemmey noted that he wanted it noted in the minutes that the ballot for
this year's election is printed wrong for the second year in a row. under the spot
to vote for a Selectman is says to vote for two and only one vacancy is available.
Also in the spot to vote for a Moderator, Charles Mulcahy's name is spelled wrong.
Clerk's Folder
The Common Victualler's License for Cousin's Pizza was nctacted upon until some-
one representing them meets with the Board. This will be taken up next week.
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Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
( PUBLIC HEARING
Article 7 - Section 7 -5 Chief of the Police Department amended to
read as follows:
The Town Manager shall appoint a chief of Police for a five (5)
year term who shall be qualified by education, training, or
previous experience to perform the duties of this office.
The Chief shall have responsibility for the operation and adminis-
tration of his department. He shall have complete authority and
responsibility for the recruitment, retention, training, and duties
of all police department personnel, and for maintenance and allocation
of all police department equipment. He shall have full responsibility
for protection of life and property, and shall be in complete command
of all persons and equipment, in the immediate area of any emergency
for which he is charged with responsibility.
The hearing was declared opened by the Chairman of the Board and the Clerk
read the above notice of the hearing that was posted in the Mansfield News.
Town Counsel Charles Mulcahy noted that the articles appearing on the warrant
are drafted properly, Article 41 and Article 17. Town Counsel noted that he has
not seen' -.the petition so he does not know if they conform to Chapter 43B,�JSection
( 15 in both cases. They require a specific procedure to follow, if in fact it was,
then they both would be okay. The only thing that it requires is a declaration
at the top of the petition stating what the change will be and it requires the
name and address of the voter, if these have been complied with then there will
be no problem. Town Counsel was shown the petitions and noted that he felt they
did conform to Chapter 43B. Section 15 of the Mass. General Laws. Town Counsel
noted that 43B, Section 10 is the Home Rule Charter amendment procedure whibh is.,
quite lengthy. Town Counsel noted -that he would condense it and read that amend-
ments to a town charter previously adopted or revised under this chapter maybe
proposed by the town meeting of a town by a 2/3's vote in a manner provided by in
this section, and read what the manner was. It was noted that a hearing has to
be held which is being complied with tonight and that such notice of the public
hearing has to be published at least seven (7) days prior to such public hearing
and not later then 4 months after the filing date of the petition. Final action
on the suggested amendment shall be taken in the case of a Town not later than the
first annual town meeting being held at least six (6) months after such filing date.
Selectman Delong questioned the Town Counsel on the six months issue and if this
meant that it could be part of this town meeting. The Town Counsel noted that
at least six (6) months means within six (6) months. Selectman Caponigro asked
if he understood that a charter change can be voted by a town meeting and does not
need a ballot. Town Counsel noted that this is correct, that our charter reads
that in order for a charter revision, Article 9 -1, amendments to the charter can be
made by passing a town meeting resolution by a 2/3's vote and a referendum at the
next municipal election by a majority vote. This is what the Charter Commission
proposed, they also proposed that if there was any conflict between the Mansfield
Charter and Chapter 43B -10, that 43B -10 would apply. So it only has to go to a
town meeting, Town Counsel noted that the only time it would require a referendum
is if you were changing a town meeting form of government, if you were changing the
election or appointment of the Town Manager or the Board of Selectmen.
Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
j Page 2
PUBLIC HEARING Article 7 - Section 7 -5- Chief of Police amendment.
Selectman Delong noted that we would hear from the proponents first and asked
that they please state their names when recognized.
Selectman Clemmey asked that he speak first. He noted that the majority of
the Board of Selectmen signed this petition along with the majority of the
FinCom, and at this time wanted to make a statement:
Selectman Clemmey noted that there are currently three (3) bills pending in
the state legislature which seeks to reform some of the civil service laws in
the commonwealth. The civil service system has long been critizied for waste
and inability to effectively manage employees. Disciplinary action is virtually
impossible , these bills attempt to establish some badly needed control and ac-
countability forcivilservice positions. The passage although desperately needed
is not garanteed.. The amendment to the charter proposed by this article goes one
step beyond those bills and removes the very key government position from the
pitfalls of the civil service system. It places control and ultimate responsi-
bility of the position within the reach of the townspeople, currently' -.the people
are virtually helpless in their complaints about a chief's performance, this
amendment provides a more responsive means to i:nitiate.direetive . or corrective
action. Although it has been suggested that this amendment will create a new
political appointment it is actually less political because it mandates account -.
ability and regular performance reviews. If a bad appointment is made we have
the opportunity to take corrective action, under the current system if we make
a bad appointment we are stuck with it until the person retires. With the pro-
posed cap on government spending and the anticipated affect on public . services
it will become increasingly more important to establish and maintain control on
all such services. This proposed amendment is the first step in this direction. If
the ,people of Mansfield agree with my proposal then I will submit similar changes
to other offices. It is important to note that this change will not affect the
current chief's position, this article is an appeal to the people of Mansfield to
lay the ground work we will need to deal with the pressures of the state or federally
mandated programs that appear eminent. It is an attempt to close the barn doors
before the horse is out. Selectman Clemmey noted that he should add.,an amendment
of this kind will not affect any of the officials that are in office at the time
the amendment passes, only their successors and none of these changes will in any-
way affect the authority of the office or the ability of the person to carry out
his duties. They merely provide us, residents and taxpayers with some say in how
our town is run.
Selectman Delong again asked if there was anyone present to speak in favor of
this amendment, no one came forward.
Bill DeBaggis, Cottage Street, spoke up as being against this amendment. Mr.
DeBaggis noted that he wuld like to ask one of the three Selectmen who endorsed..
this : 1. How do we benefit as taxpayers and citizens of the town by the police
chief being removed from civil service? 2. Why only the police department and not
the fire department? Selectman Clemmey noted that if the townspeople vote for this
he will make the same recommendation for the fire department. Mr. DeBaggis feels
that if it were both departments he and the citizens of Mansfield would understand
but where it is only one department it is not clear why they are trying to do this.
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Board of Selectmen
March. 7, 1979
Page 3
PUBLIC HEARING - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 Chief of Police amendment
Mr. DeBaggis notes that the way it stands now the present board or the majority
of the board can make the appointment for the police chief in the event that this
goes through, :(Selectman Clemmey interrupted and noted that the Town Manager makes
the appointment) Mr. DeBaggis noted that if he sat on the board in years to come
and he did'nt like the present police chief he could raise hell 'with him and try
to remove him if he is not protected by civil service, if he is doing a bad job
civil service will se that he is removed. Selectman Clemmey noted that civil
service won't remove him and disagrees with what Mr. DeBaggis says. Mr. DeBaggis
said then why not wipe out all civil service then. Selectman Clemmey notes that
they should, that there are three bills pending in the legislature to do that.
House Bill 2651, does exactly that if it passes the legislature, it limits all
civil service to five year terms with a five year renewal but by the same token
you do not have to, if this bill passes, renew the person after five years.
Selectman Avery noted that because Mr. DeBaggis asked the question, he certainly
has the right to know my reason for signing the petition. Selectman Avery agrees
with what Mr. DeBaggis said in his second point and this is .a personal position
that he would take, even if not sitting on the board. Selectman Avery notes that
he has ne£er believed in civil service, he has always been opposed to it, even as
a former school superintendent in the town he was opposed to tenure. His reasons
being that he believes.:that civil service protects the inefficient and really doesn't
do a hell of a lot for those people who are efficient and he would like to see the
town adopt it's own system, not only for the police department but for the fire
depattment, those are the two in this town who have civil service. In the town
meeting of 1943 and 1944 the town adopted the provision whereby police and fire
would come under civil service. Selectman Avery notes that he thinks the day is
gone and can see in the past where public employees particularly in the nature
of fire and police needed protection from political intrusion on their jobs and the
life but under the present laws and the due process laws it does not matter what
they are on, civil service or something else, they are protected, there is enough
protection under the due process and protection of the individual where it is re-
quired to have hearings or whatever the individual wants.. He is entitled to go to
court, he is entitiled to be represented by a lawyer. This does not have to be done
under civil service, it is provided for under the present law, civil service provides
examinations that must be passed in order to be appointed to either the fire or the
police department but if you exam the examinations and the way they are prepared
and if you read what has gone on recently in the paper concerning falsification of
test results, Selectman Avery's personally fees that those tests are not worth what
they are printed on and thinks that if we want to have good candidates, (and he is not
to be misunderstood, he feels that we have some excellent police and chief D'Afile
is a good chief) and his reaction in proposing or signing the petition is not based
upon the removal of anybody, it is based upon the improvement of the system and you
don't improve it under civil service, that is why Selectman Avery signed the petition.
Selectman Avery agrees with Mr. DeBaggis that if we are going go go after civil service
it should be done on the basis of the entire town, everyone who is involved in civil
service. Selectman Avery noted that if he had the opportunity his motion would be
to remove from the civil service list both fire and police.
Selectman Colella noted, not to echo what Selectman Clemmey and Avery said but he
feels strongly the same way. We are trying to improve the system and believes that
anyone who is under civil service and not doing a good job is hard to remove, with
the amendment the control goes right back to the board through the Town Manager.
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Board of Selectmen
Page 4
March 7, 1979
J PUBLIC HEARING - Article7 - Section 7 -5 Chief of Police amendment.
l Selectman Colella notes that if the Board feels that the chief of police or
whoever it may be is not doing his job he can at that time be removed, this way
here under civil service it would be a long time until he retires or quits on
his own, and that Selectman Colella notes is his main reason for signing the
petition.
Selectman Delong noted again that he did ask for proponents to the amendment,
and asked if there were any proponents? No one came forward, so Selectman Delong
noted that they would now take opposition to the amendment.
Thom Greene, 1365 west St. noted that the first thing he would like to say is
that civil service is not the answer to everything, until every man in our country
gets back to doing a day's work we will not be able to get on our feet, it would
help if all civil service were removed but we have seen what has happened on the
boards of this town. When something in his expi6rence and he went to court was
absolutely wrong and against the law the Selectmen thgat he allowed to speak ahead
of him moved so that he could not speak in oppositio went to court and the court
upheld the local government because it is government. Mr. Greene speaking to
Selectman AVery noted that if a local chief goes to court at any time against a
local government he does not have one leg to stand on. Mr. Greene notes that the
money people in this town has not been able to get into the area of the local
police, not that there may be better systems thaithe civil service but he feels
that the only protection our police have)and the chief is only secure in asmuch as
that there is some control outside the elected members of this town. Everyone of
us including himself would like to have control over the police. Mr. Greene
notes that he appreciates the words better for our town but it seems to him and.
nobody has proved him different, that what was just done recently in giving five
years of our airport for $1.00 a year does not show to hitiiithat: was responsible
government. He therefore would ask the board if any of them have gone to our
local police and asked them how they feel about it, what they think. Mr. Greene
asked each of'the Selectmen this. Selectman Clemmey noted that he did talk to
a few of them and had no comment because they did not want to be quoted on what
they said. Selectman Delong noted that he talked to one and he was not favorable
to this change. Selectman Colella noted that he spoke to a few and they are favor-
able to the change. Selectman Avery noted that he spoke to two police and they
were both opposed and rightly so because if he were in their position he would be
too. Mr. Greene feels that as far as he is concerned he believes that once you
move in the direction in which this amendment is proposed that negative attitudes
are going to be raised in the minds and feelings of those responsible officers.
Mr. Greene notes that as far as he is concerned he does not run this organization
he does not run this town, he has never wanted any favors, he has never wanted to
be recognized or have any power, he has offered his services for fifteen years most
times he has been rejected and if anyone benefits from anything he offers or says
they can have all the glory he does not want anything, he is just putting an input
to the board as a person who has traveled much broader fields than most and has had
much greater involvement than most and where civil service is not the best answer
in the world he recommends to the board that it is one outside source from the
elected officials which will in case of any involvement or any interference that
there is one outsid = protection and one only. Mr. Green fe61s that there are three
l departments in town which should be unpolitical and should be completely free of
any control, one is the police, second the fire and third ambulance. Those three
should be completely unpolitical. Anything else is not a case of life and death.
Board of Selectmen
Page
March 7, 1979
PUBLIC HEARING - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - Chief of Police amendment
Margot Jellnick - West Street. - asked Selectman Clemmey if the current
chief of police has done anything against the chatter? Selectman Clemmey
noted that this does not have any bearing on this hearing but did answer that
to the best of his knowledge he has not. Margot wanted to know when the Board
voted on this petition to be submitted for the town meeting, and was told that
this was done at the meeting of February 1, 1979. Selectman Clemmey noted that
it does not have to be in the minutes that it is a petition and was signed by ten
registered voters. Margo noted that what she was about to say she wanted in the
minutes : "it appears to me that what Mr. Dave Clemmey and company are trying
to do is tie a chief of police to a tree and start a fire underneath, that is
lynching ".
Delores Benson, 38 Pleasant St. noted that what she was hearing tonight is amazing.
She did not think that someone's personality was at question or their ability to
do a job, she thought that it was a question of control and each time the people
in the town of Mansfield give up local control to state government we lose our
rights as citizens and individuals, we had a welfare system in this town at one
time and with good tight controls, it was released to the state and our welfare
system is run rampant. We had good control with the school system and now with
fiscal autonomy, our school system is run rampant and she is not for anymore
state control.
uet ,,
Robert Sa
q , , Elm Street, noted that it has been said that the evil we know
is better than the evil we don't know. Bob notes that civil service is a system
that seems to have worked to some extent and before we take a hard look at
getting rid of civil'service we should look back in history and find out why civil
service came about. There was a time in history when there were no rules in how
you hire public employees and as a result virtually every public job became a
political plum and every new administration sent all the old public employees to
the unemployment line and put new people in these spots. Mr. Saquet notes that
he can agree that there should be some changes made in the way we appoint town
employees but to just drop civil service like that and leave the appointment of
any position just up in the air to be picked by qualifications that may or may not
be valid always leaves many political appointments opened to the suspicion of neoptism
and some of the other problems that can creep up. For every problem that we can
find with a civil service appointment we can probably find as many if not more
problems with a political appointment and just to say that something is bad is one
thing but before we can say let's get rid of civil service for the police chief he
would like to know really what it will be replaced with.
Selectman Avery noted that since he was the one who spoke about civil service in
general and not zeroing in on the chief of police or any chief for that matter,
his whole ax-gument is for the town to establish its own qualifications , to es-
tablish its own set of examinations requiring certain physical examinations and
mental examinations. Selectman Avery notes that the town can set up its own
examinations and in no way would he considen3aa political appointment. Even at
( the present time with civil service there are political appointments because the
appointments are made by the appointing authority and they get a list from civil
service based upon those who passed the examination and they make the appointment
from that list, so Selectman AVery is saying that the town could set up its own
system. Its own personnel classification board, establish the classifications,
list the requirements for each position, that is what he is talking about.
51-
Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
J Page 6
1. Public Hearing - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - Chief of Police amendment.
Bob Saquet continued and asked that it might be in the best interest of every-
one concerned to not only have an article in the town meeting to get rid of
civil service but an article following right after it to give us a replacement
for it, rather than to just leave a vacumn where virtually anything can and
probably would happen. De we have to have this change made this year asked Bob?
Can it be put off a year and come up with the replacement legislation to come right
after the town meeting wo shen we are talking about getting rid of one form of
appointment we can also talk about what we are going to replace it with. Selectman
Avery said that he agrees with this, and Bob asked Selectman Clemmey if this was
something that could be done and Selectman Clemmey said, yes. Selectman Delong said
that it was too late for this annual town meeting. Mr. Saquet said we might consider
dropping the issue for this tonw meeting, tabling the motion or whatever and come back
a year from now with the replacement legislation.
Selectman Clemmey said that there are plenty of people in town, the town clerk,
town treasurer, town planner and everyone else who are not protected, who don't
have life tenure on their job. Selectman Clemmey said that he cannot see how
anyone can stand up and say that we should give somebody a job and tell them that
it's their's for 30 years or whatever and they can do whatever they please. The
standards under civil service are so minimal that it's not even funny, they laught
at you. Bob Saquet noted that he could not agree with him more. Selectman Clemmey
then gave an example of a city employee protected both by civil service and the
union, who was caught playing golf with the city truck on time and half when he was
suppose to be working. The employee was given a hearing and was found not guilty.
Bob Saquet noted that he agrees with him 100% but we should know what we are re-
placing civil service with.
Another unidentified woman from the audience asked if the reason for this amendment
is because the problem with civil service is that once you appoint them you are stuck
with them even if you've made a bad appointment.
Selectman Clemmey answered this by noting that he would like to give a couple of
quotes from Representative Barney Frank who filed three of the bills in tthe legis-
lature -.to modify civil service and tie their appointment to renewal every five years.
"Presently about 80.000. unionized state employees are granted tenure for the duration
of their employment and can only be disciplined or fired through procedures so com-
plicated most managers do not even try ". That's the type you are running up against
in civil service, noted Selectman Clemmey. Representative Barney Frank told the
committee that legislation was necessary because current laws makes disciplinary action
against employees with bad work records almost impossible. The tow articles read by
Selectman Clemmey were both out of the Attlebor Sun Chronicle.
Celeste Jones, 60 South walnut St., noted that she has been trying to follow
Selectman Clemmey's line of thinking and said that she would like a clarification.
Airs. Jones said that Selectman Clemmey stated when questioned earlier that he was
asking to amend the chief of police first and if this is okayed he is going to go
and ask the same for the fire chief. Our present chief of police will be retiring
a lot sooner than the present fire chief and the present fire chief has not been on
( for more than a year and he is a young man . Knowing that he would be under civil
service Airs. Jones wanted to know why this was not brought up at that time. Selectman
Clemmey noted that it was not his idea to have him under civil service. The former
Town Manager made the arrangements for the civil service exam.
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Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
Page 7
PUBLIC HEARING - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - Chief of Police Amendment.
The Chief of Police, Lawrence D'AFile noted that contrary to what one of the
petitioners said in reference to getting rid of a police ch ief from civil service,
back in 1946 a police chief was fired who was under civil service so that there
are ways of getting rid of the police chief or the fire chief or anyone under
civil service. Contrary to what Representative Barney Frank said there are ways
of getting rid of personnel from the police department. Larry noted that he has had
very good luck with civil service and bringing men into civil service or suspending
men or giving punishment duty and they have upheld the charges against the officers.
Civil service is a protection the chief noted there is no question about that, a
protection to the officers and to the chief and also to the citizens of the Town
of Mansfield, the whole community as a matter of fact. As he feels the chief noted,
some of the reason behind this petition is to eliminate the position of the police
chief from civil service so the police department can be controlled. It is also
proposed in the article that the Town Manager appoint a police chief for five years.
The chief noted that in his expierence as a police chief in Mansfield and a member
of the police department for 30 years, 23 years as chief, there have not been to
many town manager's who has lasted for more than five years including this town.
So it is very feasible that the Selectmen appoint the town manager, the town manager
works under the town charter but with the approval of the Board of Selectmen. The
Selectmen then would control the Town Manager who in turn would control the police
chief and fire chief. The chief said that he would like to see someone within his
department take his position when he leaves because most of the men are going to
i college and are being trained on their own, paying for this education themselves
and the he would hate to see the politicians in the future control the office of
the police chief, contmlthe office of the fire chief, this is what could happen.
The town could be wide open, things could come in that goon in the city of Boston
and throughout other communities in the northshore because of the licensing author-
ities allowing it and therefore the town manager would not control the police chief
or the fire chief, the Selectmen would control the positon they would control both
positions, so I say to you that prior to June 25, 1943, the people were fed up with
what was going on in the community so they voted on a ballot to put the police
chief's postion under civil service and the vote was - 1077 yes, 222 no not to put
the police chief's position under civil service. The were interested in keeping that
position away from politics, this is the way it was back in 1943, so I say to you
people the chief noted, protect your community and keep the politicians out of the
operation of the police department, kill the article at town meeting.
Mr. Green, 1365 {Vest Street, spoke again and noted that if everyone could be removed
off of civil service and make them work harder to put our country back on its feet
he would be with this change 1000. He noted that he is a little hesitant about the
chief of police because he feels that there should be some little control outside the
elected officials especially when there are people within a certain town that have
so much sway, money wise and otherwise.
Unidentified woman asked that if the state is trying to pass anti -civil service type
of legislation, why are we such a hurry to do it here in Mansfield? Selectman Clemmey
noted that there is no guaranteethat the state will pass it. Unidentified woman
asked what the point of having it here in Mansfield it? Selectman Clemmey said that
that knowing how the state operates, it will die in committee. Selectman Clemmey
noted that in answer to what the chief said, it is still his personal opinion, that
anybody who is worth their salt can defend their job and if doing their job is not
going to get fired by the Selectmen or Town Manager, and he doesn't need civil service
to back him up.
-7-
Board of SElectmen
March 7, 1979
Page 8
PUBLIC HEARING - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - Chief of Police Amendment.
Selectman AVery noted that he would like to ask the chief two questions, because
on one of them they both talked about before.
1. Do you have any control over the list that is sent to you for civil
service appointments? The Chief answered that he did. Selectman
Avery asked him what control he has? The Chief answered that the
control is, depending on how many positions are opened, if you have
one position open you can pick any of the top three, if three positions
are opened any of the top five, four positions opened anyone over the
top seven, so you do have control over them. The chief continued that
in the event that there is something wrong with their background all
you have to do is write a letter to civil service noting that he re-
fused to accept them as patrolmen for the Town of Mansfield and that
is sufficient reason. If they do come on and we miss on something
and don't follow rules and regulations within the 12 months then we
can get rid of them.
2. Supposing that a list is sent to you and the top five are well qualified
people, you can't find anything in which to reject them on the basis of
their qualifications, all five come out of the City of Boston, can you
reject the list ?. The chief noted that right now because of the residency
requirement in civil service, the last list that the chief received when
they appointed Richard Brown was all Mansfield residents. So now under
the present regulations the list can be limited to Mansfield residents, the
chief noted unless it has been changed and to his knowledge this has not
been changed.
3. Are all towns and cities in the Commonwealth under civil service; police
department and fire department? The Chief noted no, they are not.
4. Those towns that do not have civil service do you feel that their police
force is any less effective than those with civil service? The Chief noted
that they have problems within the higher echelon, because of politics, but
not from the appointment point of view or the caliber of men that they get
to his knowledge.
Leonard Flynn, 102 Jewell St., noted that he was neither for or against civil service
but does agree with Bob Saquet with trying to find something to replace it before the
article is voted on. Selectman Clemmey asked Mr. Flynn was he meant and he (Mr. Flynn)
noted that by creating a personnel selection board organized in the town that the people
will have an opportunity to look at and study and see that it is adequate replacement
for civil service so that the people knew there was some criteria for selection other
than political. Selectman Clemmey noted that an exam would be drawn up for a police
chief , Mr. Flynn noted that he had not heard anything or seen anything like that and
that is his point.
William DeBaggis, Cottage St., noted that he wanted to clear ''the last statement that
he made in that he is no opposed to civil service but what he cannot understand is
that only one position is being picked on to eliminate from civil serivice when there
are many positions held in town under civil service. He also wonders why the city
of Attleboro has always made a provisional police chief appointment and it is taking
from the ranks of the police department so if they promoted a police sergeant he
Board of SElectmen
Page 9
March 7, 1979
PUBLIC HEARING - Article 7 - Section 7 -5 - Chief of Police Amendment.
maintains his civil service rate of sergeant, now they have been doing that
for years and Mr. DeBaggis wonders why the city of Attleboro placed the police
chief on civil service, they must have had a good reason and here we want to
eliminate the police chief from civil service and as the chief says, it is not
the present time it is the future and it will become a political football.
This was questioned 15 years ago when we had a charter change and Mr. DeBAggis
got up and questioned that it would be a political appointment , the fire and police
chief at that time and the answer that was given was yes, because the Board of
Selectmen control the Town Manager . The Town Manager will make the appointment
to the Board of Selectmen's wishes not his wishes. Mr. DeBaggis said that if you
are going to eliminate one position you may as well do it all. Selectman Clemmey
noted that he does not understand Mr. DeBaggis's thinking because under the present
system this can happen, and then we have a guy in there for the rest of his life
that was put in there politically so he does not see Mr. DeBaggis's argument. Mr.
DeBaggis noted that if a man is doing a bad job working under civil service he
can be removed, can he not? It takes a little time. Selectman Clemmey noted that
it -will take a lot of time. It would take a town manager about 2 months to sit
down and go through it. Mr. DeBaggis noted that he cannot see appointing a police
chief, if the article stated that the future police chief would be taken from the
ranks he could buy the article or if it was stated that the future fire chief would
be taken from the ranks, the man that knows the inner problems of his department
who has worked with the department for years, he is a career man, you know yourself
( Mr. DeBaggis went on that someone could retire from one town come into this town
and burn up this town in 2 years and then say to hell with it, I don't want to stay
on that police force or fire department, that's not any protection for the townspeople.
Mr. DeBaggis feels that it will become a political football.
Mr. Green, 1365 West St., noted that it is up to the government of the town whether
the police chief will be removed from civil service or not, that's the Selectmen's
responsibility. Mr. Greene feels that the police chief should have some kind of
protection. Mr. Greene noted that he would like to suggested that if they were re-
moved from civil service he would like to give some suggestions for guidelines .
Mr. Greene noted that he would like it arranged in the charter for a watchdog committee
who shall duly look into any interference from any political member of the town with
the police chief and that the police chief cannot be fired without the approval of
the watchdog committee and that as long as the police chief performs satisfactorily
the first five years unless the watchdog committee says he has to be released, auto
matically he has the right to renew the next five years. That will give the police
chief the protection that he is entitled to, if you remove the civil service, in
other words there is another arbitry people other than the town fathers at their whim
or fancy to remove and it won't rely upon the town manager who might be here or might
not be after the appointment has been made. So Mr. Greene noted that he would like
the Selectmen to bear these thoughts in mind if you are really thinking of the interest
and the benefits of the townspeople, build in this protection, so we do not have the
situations that have happened in other areas, so that we can have a confidence in
selectmen and what they do, because he is afraid that in many positions and in
many things that have happened there has been no assurance to the townspeople that
it has been good government. But if you do someting like this Mr. Greene will give
his backing 100 %, in the event that civil servie is removed.
Bob Tighe, 56 Spring St., noted that he came here tonight primarily to hear the
argument and he thinks that he heard them and frankly does not think that there is
good argument for this change at all and he intends to vote against it.
End of this hearing.
-9-
Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
Page 1
PUBLIC HEARING -
To see if the Town will amend the Town Charter, Section 5 -9
titled "Airport Commission" as follows: To delete the second
paragraph starting with the words, "The Airport Commission
shall" and ending with the words "other provisions of the
charter" in it's entirety and inserting the following paragraph.
The Airport Commission shall have the care, custody and respon-
sibility for the management of the municipal airport. It shall be
the Commissions duty to maintain and operate the municipal airport
and navigation facilities in accordance with the policy and
direction established by the Board of Selectmen or the Town. The
Commission under the General Laws, subject to the Board of Select-
men, and the Town and other provisions of this charter.
Selectman Delong declared the hearing opened on the above charter change, and
noted that we would hear from proponents first and asked if there was anyone
present who was in favor of the change.
Margot Jellinek, West St., noted that she was speaking in favor of the change and
had some notes with here that she wanted to go over and comments that she wnated
to make, also why she feels that it is very important that a charter change go
through removing the Airport Commission's full power over anything. Mr. Jellinek
noted that she had with her a copy of the lease agreement and went through the least
agreement page by page pointing out things in the lease agreement that she did not
feel were right. One of the things that Mrs. Jellinek pointed out in the lease is
that the leasee may sublet land or facilities at the airport to a third party who
is engaged in the field of aviation and so forth. Mrs. Jellinek is asking again
what land is the leasee able to lease to a third party. Selectman Delong noted to
Margo that he thinks that what she is trying to show is that this is an unsatisfac-
tory lease, but the issue before us is the change in the charter and he thinks that
if she has prove her point that this is a poor lease then her next step should be
to show how this change will affect the lease. Margo noted that without the lease
they never would have asked for this charter change. Selectman Delong noted to
Margo that the reason for this charter change is because you are unhappy with the lease
and therefore you would like to take some control away from the Airport Commission.
Selectman Delong asked that if this is done how will it improve the lease or improve
the future lease. Margo noted that now the Airport Commission can sign the lease
with or without the approval of the Selectmen. The charter change tells the Select-
men that they will have their input into the signing of a lease, they will be the
last authority. Margo wanted to know if the Selectmen knew by now what land Mr.
Cutillo will use for sub- leasing. Larry Pigeon, Chairman of the Airport Commission
noted that the Airport Commission did now what land is involved, Larry noted that
there is an enclosure with the lease agreement showing a diagram of the area leased
and in that diagram quadrom 1 is clearly defined. Margo noted that she wants to see
that diagram, that it should be filed with the Town Clerk.: Mr. Pigeon told Margo
that nobody can lease any land at the airport except the Airport Commissioners or
land that is already leaseq so the area that is defined in the lease agreement is
the only area that is leased. Margo notes that it is not defined in the lease agree-
ment what land or how much. Margo noted this is the reason a copy of the lease agree -
ment was sent to the District Attorney because of the discrepancy in it.
Board of Selectmen
March 7, 1979
Page 2
PUBLIC HEARING - Charter amendment - Section 5 -9 Airport Commission
On page 8 and 9 of the lease agreement, Margo pointed out that it says the
leases has to come up with, within 90 days of the lease agreement being signed,
with an emergency plan but it does not say in the lease agreement bhat the
town is held harmless until those plans are in action, so who is going to pay
for any fire or accident, the town or the Aiiport Commission. When is the plan
going to be put in action, what is going to happen in the meantime? So you can
see that it needs the complete powerrin an agreement like this to be in the hands
of the Selectmen. Margo also questioned who was going to do the engineering and
planning consulting work.
Thom Greene, 1365 West St. noted that the reason he feels there should be a charter
change is that Mr. Cutillo has been granted a lease for five years of the whole
airport and for $1.00 per year he has the rent of 230 acres of operation not
necessarily for his own operation but for the airport operation. But for the $1.00
per year we have to provide police, fire, ambulance and whatnot. Mr. Greene
wanted to know if there was an accident and the plane crashes, we own the land and
he would like to know how much involved we (the town) are going to be. Mr. Greene
noted that it was said that Mr. Cutillo was going to finance the money and all this
kird of thing , this Mr. Cutillo is one shot and we are providing Mr. Cutillo with
five years with a high percentage of money provided through our taxes, through the
state and through the federal and then after 5 years if he decides to pull out we
can't claim a penny from him , he has walked away with our airport for five years
and all the profits and we can't hold him, the only thing that we can sue him for
or the corporation is maybe a desk or a pencil, we can'.t take a penny from him
if he's a multimillionaire from what he draws out. What Mr. Greene is saying that
we need a charter where in that five years if a fellow should fail to perform we
should at least be reimbursed for all that land and all those years of operation.
We have absolutely no protection besides the many things that were brought up by
Margo. Mr. Greene feels that the Town has left themselves wide open and it has been
a sweetheart deal and that is why he suggest that we do need a charter change but
big situation like this and it should even come before the residents of the town to
be signed if we are going to give 5 years of 230 acres of the airport for $1.00.
He does not think that it is fair of a couple elected officials to make the final
decision on all the taxpayers property and in all good faith this was probably done
but he has.heard an awful lot of people talkiAjmin the town and as far as he is con-
cerned he supports the gentlemen in power but he feels sadden to the fact that it
is hard for many of us to keep our homes as it is and pay our taxes and we have had
an extra burden added on to us. So Mr. Greene does feel that we do need the charter
change.
Margo Jellinek, West Street, noted that she has an abstract on the organization of
the Air - Charter and read the names of the people belonging to this organization.
Larry Pigeon, Chairman of the Airport Commission noted that the lease agreement that
was signed is a binding agreement and is in force at this time. Larry noted that all
the points that were brough up tonight were brought up at a town meeting about the
lease agreement . Larry noted that the Airport Commission unamiously feels that they'
acted in the best interest of the town and feels that they need the authority that
they have to act responsiblity and are unamiously opposed to the charter change.
Selectman Caponigro asked Larry Pigebn-. if he could be a dollar value on the renovations
done on the administration building at the airport the past couple of week.
-2-
Board of Selectmen
March. 7, 1979
Page 3
PUBLIC HEARING - Charter Amendment - Section 5 -9 - Airport Commission
Larry noted at least $5000. and there will also be consumed another $18,000 to
$20,000 in maintenace expense that the town will not have to be responsible for.
So the $1.00 per year is a gross understatement. It was also brought out that
Air - Charter is going to pay for the new boiler that is going to be.installed.
So in the past couple weeks they have already committed themselves to close to
$10,000.
Mr. Greene, 1365 West St. feels that the people at the town meeting were confused.
The town meeting was not for the lease the question at the town meeting was to
close the airport. Most people did not understand that in closing the airport
was only an attempt to stop the lease , so the vote from the town meeting was not
on the lease, don't confuse the people, don't mislead them noted Mr. Greene, the
vote at the town meeting was to keep the airport opened.
Town Manager William P. Metropulos wanted to make a statement on the article on
civil service.
The Town Manager wanted it known that there is always opposition to any change that
is proposed regardless of what the change may be. There are more and more communities
that are going into taken out the police and fire out of civil service and this has
been a documented comment on various books that have been written on the subject.
The other thing is that if we take the police chief out of civil servie this does not
preclude any member of the force to take a stand and try to compete for the position
of police chief, they have every opportunity to do that. There will be written and
oral examinations set up, background will be checked, expierence will be taken into
consideration, education will be taken into consideration, this is simply a matter
of trying to get a little bit better control on management and the accountability of
the office.
The Town Manager noted that he would like to make another statement and noticed that
many of the people who made comments before have left and he is sorry about that
but there was a comment made, "why now since we just appointed a fire chief within the
last year and why did'nt we move to take it out at that time" The Town Manager noted
that he wanted to be known that the examination was set up back in 1976 or 1.977 by
the former town manager and not set up by him. If he had set it up he would have tried
at that time to take it out of civil service because he does,not feel that they should
be under civil service either. The other thing is that Mr. Greene made a comment
O that it would be a political appointments that it would go back to the same system,that
it was many many years ago and that he had never seen anyone but himself take the
position or stand to stand on your own two feet if you saw that something was wrong.
Well you are looking at another one, noted Mr. Metropulos, he is not in two cities
now because he would not play ball with politicians and he was not hired in three
other ones because of political pressures placed upon the interviewees to see whRther
or not they would be able to be controlled and he does not think that he is going to
be controlled in this town and for that reason he probably won't be around very long
either, for as it was stated he may not be here for five years and that may be true.
But Mr. Metropulos looks at it, that the charter very clearly states that the town
manager shall see to it that the functions of that office are according to the charter
and that is exactly what he intends to do with it, and he just wants everybody to under-
stand that.
A motion by Selectman Clemmey was made to support article 1, seconded by Selectman
* Avery, Voted 3 -2 ( Selectmen DeLong & Caponigro opposed)
A motion by Selectman Avery, seconded by Selectman Caponigro was made opposing the
* sec6nd0rti.cle. Voted 5 -0.
-3_